Pizza: Gourmet personal size pizza (enough for large man's appetite) with 2 toppings and free soda $ 6.00; Decent pizza in LOS about B 180-B 225 ($ 5.60-$ 7.00) and generally no free soda. So the price is the same or higher.
Sandwich: All the Subways are advertising $ 3.00 special for a reg. size sandwich or $ 5.00 for large. In LOS, the daily specials run B 69-B 79 and the large sizes B 170 ( $2.34-$ 5.31). So basically the same price. So even though here in Cal., where the min. hourly wage is around $ 8.00 PER HOUR vs. maybe that same rate PER DAY in LOS, you are paying the same price in a "low cost" country as you are in a "high cost" one. Coffee: Ah, a nice cup or coffee or latte...cheaper in Thailand? Bay Area Starbucks "tall" (smallest size) cup Pike's Peak coffee is $ 1.55. This "small" is actually quite large...at least 1.5 times the size of even the "large" mug served at Au Bon Pain in Thailand. The cost of my morning mug at ABP Pattaya is B 55 ($ 1.72). So the smaller mug of morning coffee is more expensive in Thailand.
Wine: We all know the ridiculous prices of wine in LOS (and the reasons for them) but I will repeat it here again. I was in the wine section of a high-end grocery store and had a hard time seeing a Cabernet for more than $ 30. Most were $15-$20 from various well regarded California wineries. Go to the wine sectio of Villa Pattaya and anything decent from Kangaroo Land, Lion Land, Llama Land, or Kiwi Land is at least B3500-B4500 ($109-$140).
Nice Breakfast: To an American, nothing is more relaxing than a nice morning breakfast. I am sure it is the same for all peoples everywhere. Here, this might consist of a fluffy omelette, filled with bacon, guacamole, and sour cream or several thick slices of brioche bread French Toast. You cannot find an exact equivalent for this meal in Thailand so I will compare it to the full breakfasts served by the English/Irish pub establishments. This morning, I dined on the afore mentioned omelette, which came with 2 slices of wonderful sourdough bread and a pile of sauted potatoes and the American bottomless cup of coffee (I drank 3!). Price for meal/coffee was $7.50 and with tip $9.00. I was stuffed and the meal was great. Now, the price of the English breakfast mash-ups differs from place to place but many people seem to like the version at Dubliner in BKK. I believe at Dubliner, the Big Breakfast costs B350 ($11.00). This is 15-20% more expensive meal than my breakfast here in the supposedly super expensive San Francisco Bay Area.
Posh Restaurants: A good meal at a fine (but not celebrity cheif place) would cost about $25 per person (without wine). This would be for a soup/salad starter course and a meat/fish main. Dessert/coffee would add about $ 5.00 more. For similar meals in Pattaya at places like Brunos or Mata Hari, these meals cost me around B 1500 ($ 47.00) so again, there is really no price differential. The one plus in Thailand is that generally, the service is better. Tipping is also much cheaper because for this meal in Patters, I would tip B 100 ($ 3.12) where as here, so the staff don't spit in your food the next time you come, a tip of around 15% would be necessary or around $ 7.50!
Media
Newspaper: Local SF Chronicle newspaper is $ $ .50. Local Bangkok Post is B 25 ($ .78) so it is 50% more expensive than the Chronicle (even though, if truth be told, it is the better paper). Again, the Thai paper is much more expensive than the one here. This comparison really hurts because when I first arrived in Bangers, the Post cost B 30 and the dollar was as high as 44 so this comparison has almost done a complete reversal on me.
Accommodation
Here is where Thailand can make up some points. Hotel accommodation costs still a really great value in Bangkok and Pattaya (or anywhere in the Kingdom) compared to here. I am staying in a central city downtown hotel that is convenient to everything. It is not a flash place but more a businessman's place. But not for the top execs but more the middle-managers.
I have a 20sm room, with very small and plain bathroom, 19" CRT TV, no entertainment system of any kind (radio, DVD, CD player, nada), no safe, mini-bar, or refrig. And only the most basic of toiletries and it's costing me $200 per nite. (oh, I forgot to mention that being a "value" hotel, there staffing level would be considered a joke in Thailand and there is no bellboy service so in addition to having the pleasure of paying $ 200 a nite to stay here, I also got to shelp my bags to the room myself!)
There is only the most basic of fitness facilities and a smallish pool. In Bangkok, this room would go for about B1500-B2000 at most or $47-$63. I have stayed in huge 90 sm suites in new plush hotels in the center of Bangkok, with spectacular views and great restaurants and pools for $ 130-$150 per nite. Having to pay $200 for this clean and comfortable but tiny place is a b!tch
Transportation
As I don't have a current driving license for California anymore, I am reliant on public transportation and taxis to get around during my stay. On the first morning after arrival, I didn't have the energy to study my bus maps and schedules so just went outside to pick-up a taxi to go to the afore mentioned breakfast. Wow...as I watched the meter tic ever upwards, that sure woke me up in a hurry. The ride was no more than 2 kilos at most and the cost was $8.00 (and being America, I tipped him $1.00) so the total was $9.00 to go 2 kilos. I would estimate that this same ride in a Bangkok taxi would cost no more than B 39 or maybe B 41 (or $ 1.28 at the higher price). Yes, taxis are still a major major bargain in Thailand.
As to buses, the standard fare is $ 1.75. If one needs to transfer to another route enroute, it's $ 2.00. I don't know what the cost of the aircon buses in Bangkok are these days but point-to-point must run no more than B 20 ($ .62) so again this form of transportation too is much cheaper than here.
.. more cost comparisons between Thailand and San Francisco page 3 Laundry: The standard price for wash/fold for a shirt appears to be $ 1.00 ea. at the laundries near my hotel. At my local laundry in Thailand, I pay B 500 for 80 pieces for wash/iron service or B 6.25 ea. ($ .20 ea.). So, as one would expect, a service that is almost all made up of a labour input costs is much cheaper in LOS...in this case, 1/5th the cost.
Famous Sundae: Anyone born and raised in East Bay, or attended UC Berkeley, will be familiar with Fenton's Ice Creamery. It is a Bay Area institution. Their ice cream sundaes are justifiably famous and HUGE and there is no analogue to one of these beasts in Thailand. If you took the largest sundae on Swenson's menu and trippled it's size, you would have something approaching a Fenton's "Black and Tan." However, the quality of the ice cream and toppings would pale in comparison.
In any case, purely in the interests of gathering accurate information to add to this thread, I subjected my waistline to the abuse of consuming one of the afore mentioned Black and Tans today! Cost of this decadent pleasure: $ 8.25. I believe the large (3-scoop) sundaes at Swenson's in Thailand cost B 129 ($ 4.00) or about half the cost of the Fenton's creation. Again, however, to even approach the size (but not the quality) of the Fenton's sundae, you would have to order 3 of them ...so it would come out to B 387 ($ 12.00).
Gas: The San Fransisco Bay Area has the highest gas prices in America. This is due to a number of factors...in any case, the current price is basically $ 4.00 per gallon at local stations for "regular," which is probably the closest to Thailand's 91 gas in octane content. Now, I know to my European based readers, this will seem incredibly cheap and for you it is but for my fellow Americans it is very expensive. The average price around the country, according to the reports on TV and in the papers, is around $ 3.75 a gallon.
The last time I filled up in Pattaya, gow-nueng was B 31 a litre. This equals B 118 PER GALLON (31x3.8=118), which converts to $ 3.69 per gallon. (I think I did the math right here...please correct if wrong. I think there are 3.8 litres to a gallon.) So the price of this fungible commodity is about the same, to slightly cheaper, in LOS if compared to the USA countrywide average price, which is not subject to the special environmental and formulation mandates of gas sold in California.
Electronics: Went to check out Best Buy electronics today to buy some DVDs and check on the prices of computers and electronics. Some interesting results here. Now, Apple has a fairly uniform pricing policy around the world I believe, so there is not too much variation in the MSRP from country to country. I guess price would be affected by any local imprort duties and tariffs and local dealer mark-ups.
Apple products are a good price comparison item because their specs are more or less fixed (sorta like the Big Macs of computers), unlike most WinTel based machines. The Black Mac Book 160 HD, 2 GIG RAM was $ 1300 or B 41,600. Can someone in LOS provide the current prices at shops there? The white Sony Vaio T8100 250HD 3GIG RAM 14.1 notebook was $ 1250 or B 40,000. A Linksys wireless router 100 MBPS was $ 50.00 or B 1600. I purchased a Toshiba 320 MB 2.5" external HD for $ 130 or B 4160.
Things were more favorable on DVD pricing (and I am only concerned here with genuine DVDs). In Thailand, I recently purchased the boxed sets of The Blue Planet and Planet Earth, the BBC nature documentaries. I think I paid B 600 and B 900 for them...really great prices. At Best Buy, Blue Planet was $ 60 (B 1920) and a combined set of both series was $ 90.00 (B 2880). I saved big money buying my sets in Thailand. I go through allot of reams of computer printer paper in Thailand. It costs from B 100-B 130 ($ 3.00-$ 4.00) depending on paper weight. Thie paper at Office Max cost $ 7.00-$ 7.80 (B 224-B 250) a ream. I had no idea there would be such a discrepancy in price on such an item, with LOS being less than half the Stateside price, nor do I have any explanation why this would be so. Ink jet printer cartridges were $ 15.00-$ 25.00 dollars. I don't know what model/price would be for my Thai Epson printer but I buy my cartridges at Tuk Com Pattaya for B 200 BW and B 325 colour ($ 6.25- $ 10.10).
.. more cost comparisons between Thailand and San Francisco page 3 Restaurants continued: I had a pork burrito supreme at my fav local shop today. This is their "top of the line" and largest model. It cost $ 6.00 (B 192). I have heard good things about the burritos at Sunrise Tacos in Bangkok but have not been yet and don't know how they would compare in size, taste, and quality to the one I had. Maybe someone can provide at least the pricing information for a comparison. Walking past a Japanese restaurant, I noted the price of a fried pork cutlet lunch set (tonkatsu) was $ 6.00. It looked comparable to the same set at Fuji, which is B 110 ($ 3.43). As anyone who lives in LOS knows, Fuji's food is very good value for the price and it shows here again, with the price about half the cost of the Stateside set. (Thought those Fuji cutlets keep getting smaller and smaller. )
I am a big fan of bagels and we are spoiled for choice on this score in the Bay Area. We've got Noah's, Posh, Boogie Woogie, and more. Nothing better than a toasted poppy seed bagel with garlic/herb spread to get the day started in my book. In Thailand, the only bagel I have found that is remotely comparable are the ones at Au Bon Pain. They are nothing to shout about but in LOS, they're about the best you're gonna get.
The Bay Area bagels cost $ 1.00 ea. At ABP Pattaya, they are B 50 or B 55 ($ 1.56-$ 1.72). I have no explanation why the Thai ABP ones are so expensive compared to the bigger one's here; is the cost of wheat floor so much more expensive in LOS that USA? What about the cost of water or salt...maybe they are 50-75% more expensive...it certainly isn't the wage costs of the Thai baker or shop clerk...that I do know!
A Trip to the Grocery Store: We all gotta eat no matter where we choose to call home and that means trips to the local grocery store. In either country, we can see the benefits of Globalization, with the plethora of goods (both local and from around the world) on offer. I poked my head in a couple stores today to do a little price snooping.
A staple of the Thai diet...those Japanese boil and eat ramen noodle packs (the ones you boil for a few minutes - not the instant ones) cost $ .39 ea. at Walgreen Drug Store. At Foodland in Pattaya, they cost B 26 ea ($ .81). I am talking about the Nissan brand and not the cheapo Maggi brand. This is really an eye-opener - that this simple food staple that I am almost positive is LOCALLY produced cost TWICE the USA price.
So the average Thai, who makes maybe 1/8th the salary of an American gets to pay 2x the price if he buys this product! I never buy the Maggi brand...maybe someone can supply a price point for them...they may be about the equilivent cost of the Nissan brand in USA (but are a smaller package and of lesser quality). Bag of Starbucks pre-ground coffee 12 oz is $ 11.00 ( B 352). Anyone buy coffee at a Thai Starbucks recently and know the cost?
I bought a bottle of Walgreen store brand daily multi-vitamin/mineral supplements to keep my aging body going a little longer. Cost for 220 pill bottle $ 13.00 [.06 per pill] (B 416). I don't recall specifically, but the last time I priced a similar 100 pill bottle of multi-vitamins at Boots or Watsons, it was something like B 600-B 800 [ .22 per pill using the mid-prie of B 700]. So again, a Thai or foreign expat who wants to stay healthy by taking a vitamin supplement gets to pay 4x the price. [Caveat: Due to their outrageous price in Thailand, I have never bought vitamins in LOS, and don't even bother to price them anymore. If anyone has recent pricing info that contradicts mine, please correct my post.]
Continuing down the grocery aisle, we come to some Pringles potato chips. The standard size canister is $ 1.29 or 3 for $ 3.00 (B 41 a can or B 32 ea for 3). Don't know what these cost in LOS but do know they sell them - again, can anyone supply the price for comparison?
Price for a small bottle of drinking water is $ .60 or $ 1.00 for 2 ( B 19)l. Here LOS pricing is much cheaper at B 9-B 10 or half the cost. Great because with the hot Thai weather, we must all drink lots of water.
Lets continue onto the fruits, where we can get some easy comps for coconuts, mangoes, and pineapples. (I think the store clerks must have thought I was some sort of government inspector checking their product quality or the accuracy of the scales the way I went about picking up pieces or fruit, weighing them, jotting down notes, then putting them back on display ) Here is what I found: Rather sickly looking medium sized (3/4 lb) "organic" mangoes cost $ 1.19 ea. ( B 38). In LOS, a bigger (if maybe not "organic") mango would cost B 20 ea. or about half the cost. Small coconuts (for drinking) cost $ 1.80 ea. (B 58). The last time I bought a coconut at the beach in Pattaya it cost B 20 or about 1/3 the Stateside cost. Hawaiian pineapples were $ .99 per lb so a typical 3-1/2 lb one would cost $ 3.50 (B 112). So as expected, tropical fruits are much cheaper in LOS than in the States. Of course, the price of peaches, pears, cherries, and other temperate fruits would even the scales on this score.
.. more cost comparisons between Thailand and San Francisco page 4 Smokes: Marlboro Reds cost $ 4.00-$5.00 per pack ( B 128-B 160) and $ 42.00 for a carton. The price of Marlboros in LOS are B 55 a pack or 1/3 the price. My friends who smoke claim the tobacco in the Thai Marlboros is not of the same quality and taste of those sold in Western markets so the comparison may not be completely apples to apples but close enough for our purposes.
Condoms Finally, and maybe most important - at least in my hometown of Pattaya, we come to the price of condoms! A 3-pack of Durex condoms cost $ 6.00 ( B 192). In Thailand, they cost B 45-B 55...or almost 1/4 the price. So we can all continue to engage in maximum sanook activities as the cost of our condoms is a great value compared to what one would pay for them in America. But come to think of it, some of us may not have much use for condoms in America so their high prices would not crimp our budget much and we could spend those savings on expensive smokes instead
Orchids: There was a "farmers market" day near my hotel today and I had a look around. One vendor was selling exotic orchids. These were really exotic varieties...not the typical white or purple ones you pick up for a hundred baht a tray at Thai markets and nurseries. They were good size (8-12") and priced between $ 15-$ 20 ( B 480-B 640).
Rotisserie Chicken: One man had a very large chicken rotisserie going. It looked delicious, with the drippings falling on a pile or rosemary roasted potatoes on the pan underneath. These were very large free-range birds more than twice as big as the typical Thai roasting chicken. They were $ 11.50 (B 368) a whole bird. The rotisserie birds (not Issan style gia yaang but real herb encrusted rotisserie birds) I buy on soi Nernplubwan cost B 65 ($ 2.00). Not an exact comparison between size and quality but barbecued chickens are allot cheaper in Thailand.
Pastries: Homemade peach and sweet potato pies (Southern style) personal pies $ 2.50 (B 80). Large piece homemade coffee-crumble cake $ 2.00 (B 64). Most decent pastries and cake/pie slices available at Thai bakeries and farang restaurants/cafes are at least as expensive or more so and nowhere near as good as what I had this morning.
Had the pleasure of visiting a friend in San Francisco yesterday and do some shopping and take in a Giants game at their nice new AT&T ballpark. I can tell you one thing, it is certainly back to normal regarding the weather. It was an early nite game against the Chicago White Sox and I'm sure those Sox players were much more comfortable than the California players or fans. By the time the sun went down, it was a bone jarring (for SF residents) 50 degrees or so, with a strong wind wipping up off the bay from time to time. To make matters worse, the Giants lost 3-1 in a poorly played game by both sides. However, the ballpark is really nice and intimate and the location right adjacent to the Bay and in the fast developing south of downtown area is really great.
Earlier in the morning, we were at the Ferry Building that in recent years has been developed into a fancy upmarket gourmet food emporium, farmers' market, and restaurant row. The place was packed with San Francisco beautiful people buying up organic this and free-range that. There was one stall that specialized in fresh mushrooms and they must of had 30-40 different varieties...I kid you not. Another had bananas at $ .90 ea (B 29 [I can usually get 4 for B 25 in Pattaya]). Another comparison I can offer was a restaurant that was basically full had on their menu "2 eggs any style, with bacon and toast" for $ 14.00 ( B 448). So basically, 2 fried eggs, a couple strips of fancy bacon and toast for 15 bucks...and the place was full. Apparently there is no recession in San Francisco!
In the afternoon, we ate lunch at a nice neighborhood bistro and the price for 2 pasta dishes and an enchilada plate, with only water, came to $ 50.00 (inc tip), or B 1600, for the two of us.
AS for the Giants game, we had lower box seats along the first base side. Really great seats about 15 or so rows back from the field. These cost $ 44.00 each. Standard stadium hotdogs cost $ 4.00, sodas $ 3.50-$ 5.50, and a 3-piece chicken tenders with garlic fries and soda that I bought $ 16.00. About $ 75.00 in total for one to attend a game. Compare that with a nite out in Pattaya
.. more cost comparisons between Thailand and San Francisco page 5 I'm signing-off from the USA and will be heading to the airport in a couple hours for the flight back to Thailand. It has been a great trip and I had a great time doing and eating things that are not available in LOS. As to the theme of this writing, yes, many prices are much more expensive than in Thailand and many things are the same, or even cheaper.
There are many things that are not available in either country respectively at any price. Overall, it's pretty easy to say the Thailand has a generally lower cost of living for anyone wanting a comfortable place to live...but you do give up many things, especially in infrastructure.
Having lived in LOS for a decade now, I am feeling a very strong pull to return to the USA. I am in the fortunate position where finances are not really a factor...it's more where I enjoy myself more. I have enjoyed and experienced many things in Thailand and don't regret for a minute the time I have spent there. However, I ask myself the question: Do I want to spend the next 30 years of my life there? That is the question I will be pondering over the next few months.
The cover story in the current US News and World Report weekly news magazine on the newsstands now in USA is about the medical tourism phenomenon and specifically mentions India and Thailand on the cover. It talks about American patients traveling to these countries for non-emergency chronic and elective procedures because the quality is very high and the costs a fraction of those in America.
Of course, anyone who live in Thailand already knows this and that the medical tourism market is a fast growing one in LOS.
I can't very walk into the local office here and ask them the standard price for an open heart surgery...but I don intend to pop into a dentistry office to see what their standard charges are and post the results.
I did get to pop into a neighborhood dental clinic and inquire about pricing for dental services. I was almost bowled over by the prices the receptionist quoted me. Mind you, these were "rack" rates for a walk-in customer and not prices charged for dental plan or insurance clients I'm sure. You may also be able to get a discount for cash upfront.
Anyway, here are the prices: Initial (first-time) oral exam and cleaning/polishing $ 190.00 (B 6080) and semi-annual exams/cleaning $ 160.00 (B 5120). In Pattaya (and Bangkok too) the most one would pay for a cleaning/polishing would be $ 32 (B 1000) and in Pattaya, my nice farang oriented clinic charges $ 16.00 (B 500) for this. Just be sure to brush and floss your teeth religiously in America because a porcelain filling at this clinic would cost you from $ 240-$ 450 ( B 7680-B 14,400) depending of size/number of surfaces. For fillings in Pattaya, I pay around $ 16-$ 47 (B 500-B 1500). The quality of work I get done in Thailand seems to be fine and I don't know if there is anything more to the services provided in the US or if it's just the higher MDs fees and office costs that accounts for the astromical difference.
If I do return Stateside in the future, I'll still visit LOS at least once a year and I'll be sure to have my dental work done then!
